Mine, or mined? What can we do about data sovereignty? – Follow up WS 05 2017

From EuroDIG Wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search

7 June 2017 | 14:00 - 15:30 | Ballroom II, Swissotel, Tallinn, Estonia | video record
Programme overview 2017

Session teaser

This workshops aims at focussing on the use of personal data, both on use by businesses including the importance of value of data, ownership, consumers control and on use by authorities (surveillance).


Privacy, MyData, Surveillance, Cookies, WhoIsInControl

Session description

Personal data has become a prevalent asset in the Internet. Exchange of this data is done regularly as we access webs, use Internet based services or Apps on our mobiles. The use given to the data is extensive, from granting acess to paid-services, to do targeted advertising, customer profiling, social good initiatives, and also identifying criminals by security forces. The workshop aims to provide a better insight on how data is used by different actors, businesses and authorities, and what is the value of the data assigned by each of them. The workshop shall also aim to discuss on initiatives that could shedding light in the issues mentioned and enabling individuals to have a better understanding and control over the use of their personal data.


To have a more interactive session, fostering participation of all attendees, it was agreed to have no panellists on stage.

  • Two session hosts that will act as moderators and session stimulators, would provide a brief introduction to set the scene and give an insight into issues to be addressed.
  • A group of 3 or 4 key resource persons will be asked to start the discussion by providing a brief statement on a topic.
  • After each intervention a 10 min. debate around the topic presented will be opened among all participants.
  • Once completed discussions on the 3 / 4 topics presented, session will be open for debate on hotter issues identified previously for 15-20 minutes.
  • Session rapourteur will provide a brief wrap up ing last five minutes of the session summarizing main ideas of the workshop.

Further reading


Focal Point:

  • Gonzalo Lopez-Barajas, Telefónica, S.A.

Subject Matter Expert:

  • Farzaneh Badeii (Internet Governance Project - Georgia Tech)

Key Participants

  • Lukasz Olejnik (IoT privacy) - technical, but privacy-focused (e.g. privacy implications of battery level
  • Matthias C. Kettemann - regarding role of intermediaries / realizing rights / EU judgments regarding data ownership
  • Margarita PETRUNINA, Youth IGF Movement, Russia (remote participation)
  • Yuliia Borovska, from the Ukranian data protection unit
  • Gonzalo Lopez-Barajas - Telefonica – Private Sector, Europe. Acting as representative of Data Transparency Lab.


  • Marianne Franklin

Remote Moderator

  • Allon Bar

Organising Team (Org Team)


  • Thomas Grob - Deutsche Telekom – Private Sector, Europe

Video record



  1. So far the debates have revolved around the question how can the user be protected. Now it is time to ask: how can the user actually benefit from the processing of personal data?
  2. In order to empower the user it is essential to not only raise awareness and increase transparency but to also incentivice the user to actually make informed choices who is allowed to process his personal data and to what end.
  3. Telefonica’s answer is the Aura Platform that aims at involving users interactively and allows for case by case opt-in into the provision of "insights" - not actual raw data - to 3rd parties while providing information exactly how the information is being processed and to what end.


Provided by: Caption First, Inc. P.O. Box 3066, Monument, CO 80132, Phone: 1-877-825-5234, +001-719-481-9835, www.captionfirst.com

This text is being provided in a rough draft format. Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.

>> MODERATOR: Welcome, everybody, to this session, which is about. Mine, or mined? And what can we do about data sovereignty?"

We have remote participation from Russia, that is Ms. Margarita Petrunina, who participated in the remote part to the youth IGF.

And we have a Moderator who will help us in there, Allon Bar sitting over there. We also will have remote questions coming from people.

This session is really to be interactive and we relaly fully invite you to fully participate. The success of the session is what we make of it together.

We have also a Rapporteur, Thomas Grob, from Deutsche Telecom. So thank you for joining us.

And the subject is really so all this data, what do we do with it? How can we use it? How can we use it responsibly, basically?

And with on the stage here is the inspirator of this workshop, Gonzalo Lopez-Barajas -- to I say that correctly?

>> GONZALO LOPEZ-BARAJAS: -- from Telefonica. He is a representative from the Data Transparency Lab. And like other companies, Telephonic is looking into how to deal with this data. Can you tell us more about that?

>> GONZALO LOPEZ-BARAJAS: Okay. According to a report and survey from Citizen Me, they found out that basically just 3 percent of consumers, of users, are really okay about how their data is being used. Which means basically that 97 percent is somehow concerned of how data is used by Governments, by businesses. And basically the main reason is because they don't really understand how data is being used.

In this regard, there is an initiative, which is called the Data Transparency Lab, that has been supported by Telefonica, by AT&T, Mozilla, and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, which aims to provide transparency into the ways that data is being used.

So, basically, the Data Transparency Lab has three initiatives. One is they are organising a yearly Congress, which the next one will be happening in Paris in November, in which they will gather experts, academy experts and technicians, to discuss and to find new ways and to deploy new tools for increasing the transparency in data.

They also have an initiative in which they provide grants to research, to do research on new data transparency tools. And, additionally, they also provide a creation system for these tools and for data, which is going to be shared and used by researchers, so that they can do their studies in a more fast way, so that they will not be accessing too personal data, as they would be having these data sets already available.

And probably the most interesting thing is on the programme of grants. I know the initiatives they are doing, so I will explain to you some of the researches of the tools that they are working on.

The first tool that I remember, it was already implemented a few years ago, basically they were analyzing how mobile sites, how websites were analyzing data in order to change prices of the products that they were selling. So, basically, by installing this widget on your PC, you were including the, for example, address of a product that you were purchasing online at a store. And by getting that, they were analyzing from different computers all around the world, from different kinds of processors, mobile handsets, PC laptops, and they were doing the same query on that website, and they were looking at the price that they were getting. And they were discovering that depending on the kind of localisation on the handset that you are using, the prices were changed. So they were analyzing the systems implemented by websites in order to adjust pricing for consumers.

Another initiative that is currently ongoing, another tool, it's looking at what would be the value of the data that you have from Facebook. So, basically, by providing your Facebook profile, they will analyze the value of the data that Facebook has associated to you.

Another interesting proposal is looking, for example, on ways that apps are using the personal data of consumers. So, basically, they install in your mobile handset an app and looks at all the personal data that is going out from your handset, and they have a report on all the data that all the apps are using, so that you are aware of this kind of information.

Another example is based on ad looking. So this tool, what it's trying to address is how companies are trying to block ad blockers. So how companies are preventing the use of ad blocking. How they are working on it. So they are analyzing all the inputs and looking at how these companies try to circumvent ad blockers so that they can be prevented, so that you would have a counter measure to prevent companies that are looking at ad blockers.

And there are other initiatives around that. There is an initiative that is doing a ranking of all of the websites, gathering the private information that they are getting from users.

You have another tool which is analyzing, for example, the data that third parties from applications is using from you.

You'll also have another tool which is basically trying to infer what is the use that others make of your data and what is the reason why you may be getting some other attachments on your PC.

So the main approach to this has been traditionally trying to do reverse engineering how the ads are being shown on our handsets. But, basically, the way that they are doing this, they are trying to get a little personal information from your personal activity, and then getting the ads that you get on your handset. And by gathering this kind of information from multiple users, they try to infer, depending on the ads that you are getting and this small personal information that they have, how the system is working and why you are getting this kind of ads in your PC.

And these are some of the programmes, some of the tools that are trying to enhance the transparency or how companies are using this personal data that we are giving away when we are using the Internet.

>> MODERATOR: We all know that our data are used for us and possibly against us.

And in ads on the Internet and getting the right adverts to you in Facebook, but also the mobile phone is a big collector of data. We are not aware of how all of this happens. And it's interesting to hear from you that you are much more aware of the tools that are available that are used and exploited today. Some of this we know and some of it we don't.

So how can we enhance transparency of understanding what of our data are used and by whom. Is there any way for that?

>> GONZALO LOPEZ-BARAJAS: Well, that's basically what this initiative is trying to do, trying to analyze what data is being used. And also on the yearly Congress, they also try to use these data to input other policymakers in order for them to be aware on all of the uses, so that they can act and they can have a conversation with companies in order to, for example, define what are the policies, the regulations, on data usage.

So it's not just a question of trying to discover how data is being used, but also trying to influence the policymaking of all the different organisations. And also for the companies, if they would become aware of the ways that data is being accessed and used by them is getting somehow known by the users.

So that's the basic game of the Congress. And the next one will be happening in Paris in November. And it's quite an amazing initiative.

But it's not only providing transparency from these kinds of tools, it's also the responsibility from businesses in acting in, I would say, a fair way to consumers.

So, for example, in that respect, in Telefonica, we have launched a new initiative on personal data. Basically, our principle is also based on transparency and to empower consumers so that they will be the ones deciding how we use and what use we do on the data.

>> MODERATOR: How does it work? Does it work via my mobile phone? Let's say I use Telefonica, my data goes via you?

>> GONZALO LOPEZ-BARAJAS: Basically, we are still working on it. We are implementing the platform, which is named Aura, and it's based on cognitive intelligence. And through speech it would enable you first to use the data that we have in order to improve your services, to do, for example, a configuration of your system. For example, you will be able to ask to have a guest on your WiFi. So that by asking that, and with the data that the system has on your Wi-Fi and on your router, they will be able to do these changes.

But, also, it will be giving you a timeline of all of these -- all the changes you have made and all the rights that you have granted through third parties to access your data. And this is one of the main aspects of the system. You will be providing data insights to trusted parties.

>> MODERATOR: So that it's an app on my phone that gives me that information and that's provided by Telefonica.

>> GONZALO LOPEZ-BARAJAS: It would be an app on your phone and it would be, of course, available through the Web. So you'll have many ways to interact with it.

And one of the interesting parts is on the data insights. So, basically, their approach is that we will not be sharing data from our customers. We will be providing third parties a way in which they could ask information about the data. So we are not giving away the data. We will let them do queries of our data. But, first of all, our customers will have to opt in. They will have to decide that they want that to be happening on a case-by-case. So it's not going to be a general right or a general access. It will be a case-by-case, and we will be proposing to our customers different possibilities.

For example, one possibility that we are working on, we have an agreement with the United Nations so that we will be providing them with information on the localisation of our customers and how they move. So that the United Nations would have a way to predict how diseases will be spread, for example, of the flus or national pandemics. But it would be our customers who are the ones deciding if they want to join this programme. So once they grant the access, they will be providing this data to the United Nations.

And, of course, in the time line that I mentioned before, they would be able to foreclose this access to the data any time they want. This is just, for example, a case of social good for data. But there are many more.

For example, in Latin America, the (?) penetration is very low. So many people do not have a credit history. So when they try to get a loan from a bank, since they don't have a great history, the rate that they might be getting, it's very high. So we propose to them, if you are willing to share your -- the credit information that we have from you in Telefonica, because you have been a customer for Telefonica for so long and we have a great history of your payments, and so on, if you are willing to share that data with your bank, you might be able to get a cheaper rate because the bank has some credit history for you.

So it's a case that is showing that the use of this data can also be good for the customers, not just for the company.

>> MODERATOR: Basically, the big difference is that I'll be asked to opt in, rather than automatically supplied with that service?

>> GONZALO LOPEZ-BARAJAS: That's it. And the important thing is that we are not giving away the data, but we will be providing insight. So we will let them do questions to our databases, so that we will not lose control of the data. Because some of the programmes, the ones that you give the data, you don't know who is controlling it. You don't know what happens with the data. So we will keep the data within the company and we will let them do some questions, some queries. And for that, what we are proposing is we are building some APIs, some application programming interface, to interact with this data. And we have opened these APIs so that, for example, other telecoms could be implementing the same kind of APIs. So that these trusted parties would have the same kind of APIs in order to access the data of different data providers.

>> MODERATOR: How does this sound to you, getting this access and getting this insight and getting this explicit question? Do you want to share these data for this purpose? Who would like to have such insight? I would. I see one half finger. Nobody else is interested.

Questions from the room on this? Back there and from there. Do we have a -- we have a mic here. Okay.

>> AUDIENCE: Hi. I just have a quick question.

>> MODERATOR: Can you introduce yourself?

>> AUDIENCE: My name is Amy and I worked for a project called Ranking Digital Rights. And our project measures primarily company transparency around policies, some of which have to do with how companies handle user information. We also evaluated Telefonica this year.

My question has to do with how much does this new initiative have to to with the upcoming GDPR? The passage -- the upcoming GDPR?

>> MODERATOR: How does this relate to GDPR? How did you take that into account with the development of this service, right?

>> AUDIENCE: Yes. Are these measures being implemented for regulatory reasons, or is this something Telefonica just wants to take on?

>> GONZALO LOPEZ-BARAJAS: No. No. -- no. This is a decision by Telefonica. We have that data that is available in our company, and we could decide not to do anything with it. So we are trying to use these data for the benefit of our customers. So we are proposing them with some initiatives that will be helping them, for example, with the cases that I commented on.

So it's not really -- it's not really an enforcement of some regulation. We will have to comply with the GDPR in order to do that, of course. But it's a question that we are providing our customers with these additional functionalities as a way to improve their experience and to have further use of these data that could be benefiting them. Or also have a society impact, in the case, for example, on the study of the diseases spreading.

>> MODERATOR: In my experience, GDPR would affect Telefonica in two ways. One is which data do they keep on the clients and how is that organised and inform your clients. The other is how do you make it available and under what conditions. And was was explained, it's an opt-in basis, which for the availability of the service it seems to be okay. And I can see you still reviewing your systems for seeing what you can keep on your clients.

>> GONZALO LOPEZ-BARAJAS: Another example which might be interesting, we might be getting agreements with airline companies, so that when a client wants to join this initiative, the airline might be asking us: Is this person which is flying -- has to fly in a couple of hours, or in the next hour, in Tallinn airport? Is he within a half an hour of the airport or not? And then we will be telling them. Of course I repeat: If the customer decides to adhere to this. I mean, we discuss with them and they decide if they want to join. So it's not the airline asking us about anything. So it's the customer who decides if they want to take part in this.

And if we say yes, he is close enough, that will be the end. If we say no, he is farther away, then the airline might be contacting the customer in order to offer him an alternative for his flight or to cancel it and to help with the customer dealing with this.

So I think this is an example of finding an initiative that might be good for the customer. And we will not be giving the data to the airline. We just let them ask about the proximity. So he will not be even getting the exact location of the customer. So it's just an insight. It's not the exact data on the location.

>> MODERATOR: So, basically, it's about the other side of data. There has been a lot of talk in this conference about GDPR and privacy and how you protect that. There has been less talk about so how can people benefit from this data if they would want to? And the model that you describe here is an opt-in model. I would love to be serviced as well.

So I would love to be served as well. And I care about my privacy, too. This is the debate that we currently find ourselves in.

What I do see is that the whole GDPR discussion helps companies be much more aware of that. And some companies are on the edge of shying away by changing the business model and not keeping any data on the customers, except for sending invoices.

Other companies are really saying like how can we serve better our core clients, those who want data from us for marketing or whatever reasons, in an appropriate way?

So I have another question there from you.

>> ALLON BAR: Thank you. Unfortunately, there is no input from remote participants. But unless there are other questions, I hope that I can ask one that I have.

>> MODERATOR: Okay. Allon Bar, please.

>> ALLON BAR: Yes. Thank you for the introduction. One thing I was very interested in learning more about is the approach that you were mentioning about a tool to manage people's personal data. And to what extent does it align with the approaches that we have seen come up across Europe and the United States about personal information management systems? I saw on the programme there is talk about MyData, which is a movement that has come up especially in the Nordic countries and also here in Estonia as sort of a way to give people the tool to manage their own data and to decide with whom they want to share their data in a particular way. And I was curious, to what extent does this tool work like that?

And the added question to that, I think one of the challenges that these tools have been facing is getting adoption from other services. So being able to sign on with such a personal data system to other services and controlling the data that way.

What are you doing to work with other partners or to allow individuals to be able to control their data for using such other services?

>> GONZALO LOPEZ-BARAJAS: Okay. Basically, our platform -- our platform is a work in progress. So we are just working on it. It's not yet fully implemented. And what we are working on is these services and trying to make discovery of what services would be benefiting our customers. I just gave a few examples, but we are still working on it.

As I commented, we are hoping -- we are implementing these APIs so that we will be an open system so that other companies can implement similar approaches, and that would be a way in which we might get more traction into getting companies trying to access and trying to benefit from this approach. Because it would not just be Telefonica providing data insights. Other companies might have the same kind of programme with these APIs to provide data for these companies.

So we are working now also to find new possibilities. We also had an agreement, for example, with Facebook for an MMR system that in case of, for example, for an earthquake or natural disasters, it will let you inform others that you are okay and that data you'll be able to receive even if you are not logged into your Facebook account. So we are looking at two different possibilities.

Additionally, we will be allowing our customers to have their data and to take them with them and to port it to other systems. So we will be providing our customers with that functionality so they will be able to take their data and use it as well.

>> MODERATOR: And go to Vodafon or something.

Excellent. Data portability is one of the big things in the new legislation as well.

So questions? Yes, please. The microphone is coming your way.

>> AUDIENCE: Thank you. I'm Zeida Fries (sp) from (?).

So my question is a bit in line with something that already came up, but apparently it remains common all the time. This is important, because it's an opt-in decision to be engaged in this sort of platform. But that has risk, as well, regarding that option. So like all the good examples that were given, I think lack of an incentive to the user. Because a very well informed users or very active users will engage to provide such good services for society. But this is always -- so adoption is always a problem in technological environments.

So my question would be: Does Telefonica have an idea of how to promote that option? How to incentivize a user opting in? Because you need an action from users. So can you give one example of some incentive for users?

>> MODERATOR: So what do you do to make the user aware of his choice, basically, right?

>> AUDIENCE: Yes. So why will I -- maybe not me, because I'm involved in these sort of things. But why would my mother log into Aura and see what is on there?

>> GONZALO LOPEZ-BARAJAS: Well, first other --

>> MODERATOR: Why would your mother?

>> GONZALO LOPEZ-BARAJAS: Because with Aura we are not just granting access to these kinds of data insights. It will be also a way in which you will be able to access all the data that we have on your services, for example, on your billing. You'll be able to change your account. You will also be able to do all of the management of your services. You'll be able to, for example, as I said, configure -- I mean, if you want, for example, if you have kids and you don't want them to be using the Internet for a certain range of hours, you'll be able to be blocking their Wi-Fi at home during certain hours so that they will not be using it.

So we are looking at ways in which Aura is not just a tool to provide these insights, but also a tool for customers to configure their services at home, to look at all their billing, to look at their history, to be able to contract new services.

So I would say like the interface with the company, so it's not just for this data approach.

>> AUDIENCE: Thank you.

>> MODERATOR: So does your mother not know what to do?


You understand the issue, right? But I can see the contractual side and the legal side and everything. But the human side, it's just like also on the Internet. We have the experience that we can use a service and we just have to tick a box. If you don't tick that box, it won't work. So how does it work?

>> GONZALO LOPEZ-BARAJAS: Well, with Aura we are trying to be very interactive. So it will not be just -- I mean it's going to be based on voice recognition. So it will be more interactive and more easy to use for our customers. It's not just reading.

So like other systems that we are seeing from different companies, so we will have the possibility to interact on a speech basis. So -- I mean, we already made some demos on that. And all that was talking about the configuration of Wi-Fi and so on. It's not that you have to access and do clicks on your mobile. It's all speech recognition based. So it should be very easy and an easy-to-use interface. So we think that that might help in order to our customers to be managing it and to be using it.

And, of course, I mean, certainly people that are not really very digital or very native, they will not be sharing their data. Because it's something that they -- I mean, they will not be aware and they will never do it. So we have to try to make these people more aware on how the association is helping them and then try to educate or to provide them with the skills to use these services.

>> MODERATOR: That helps you, I guess.

>> AUDIENCE: Yes (Off microphone.)

>> MODERATOR: And admittedly, my father, over 80, sometimes calls me. And he says you just called? And then I called three days ago without getting in contact with him. SMS is a bit too hard. And I explained it to him.

So thank you for that explanation. It makes it clear. If I opt in, then I can choose to be informed by McDonald's that there is a special offer in my area, or whatever. And that specificity is there.

>> GONZALO LOPEZ-BARAJAS: Basically, yes. And also with the timeline, we think that will be a very easy way in order to look at all the right accesses that you have granted. So that you'll be able to check and of course cancel it at any time. So you will have a history of all of the interactions that you have made with the platform, not just for these insights but also on the changes that you have made to your services, and so on.

So you will have a track record of all of your history with all of the actions that were made within -- with the company.

>> MODERATOR: So that's making sense, right? Many of us, particularly coming to EuroDIG, we think in terms of: Oh, how do I protect privacy, right? That's a main concern. What we're trying to do a little bit here, and thanks to Telefonica and Gonzalo to be willing to share it, there are also good things in data and we can benefit from it. So how do we experience it? What would we like our data to be used for?

As you may know, one of the initiatives in Europe from the European Commission is the open up data initiative. So, basically, making data about whatever we do, as much data as possible, available for research. For many decades the only social research that could be done came from the United States because they were allowed to collect data there. So that means all of the data about our social behavior that go back more than five or ten years are basically not our data, but are data about how Americans react in our circumstances. This is still probably more comparable than Chinese or Africans, but still --

So the other thing is in a society that's increasingly dense, information about how to better use the society will also benefit from good data access, ranging from disease notifications to traffic jams, which you are already seeing in your systems, to where you can park your car.

So more openness for data. Who would like to add this data to that pot and what would you need to be willing to do that? What assurances do you need?

I remind you -- super. Thank you. The success of this workshop depends on you as much as us. Please state your name.

>> AUDIENCE: I'm Tim from Switzerland. I spoke to some of these people already yesterday, so I won't be so long.

We have a concern that, when we speak of open data, normally we mean to allow the municipal and Government data repositories to be accessed. So this is what I understand from open data, it's not generally so. But it, for instance, our Department of Statistics would allow the data sets to be queried with an API. The problem that many of our local communities have, though, is that you can combine queries of different open data sources to, for instance, determine that a particular household is away on vacation and they are a good candidate for a deepschtal (sp), a robber, to come and to make a theft. So a big concern, where I come from, is that if you allow open data, you have to have enough fuzziness or anonymity in the returned data so that it's not a danger to the individual when it's used by an inappropriate party.

Does that help you with your question at all?

>> GONZALO LOPEZ-BARAJAS: I fully agree with your approach. I mean, in order to be providing open data, we would have to be anonymized. And that means basically -- it doesn't mean that it's impossible to re-personalize that data. It means that efforts in order to do that should be so big that it would take a great amount of, I don't know, computing capacity or a lot of effort in order to do that. So the data centre doesn't mean that it cannot be re-identified. It means that you should be doing something for it in order for it to be re-personalized in the data. So you manage different sources of anonymized data that are together with some other data, you might be able to re-identify a person. But the effort should be so grand, that if not impossible, you would have to do a lot of work in order to do that.

And then the question is, would it be legal to do so? There are some doubts about that.

>> MODERATOR: So thank you for this. Are there more questions? Because one of the things why the two of us are here is that the Moderator and the other speakers, unfortunately, couldn't make it for different reasons. They all had different reasons. And still the Telefonica story is very worthwhile sharing. It does provide more insight and it does have a different take.

We have one more question there.

>> Yes.

>> MODERATOR: Please.

>> ALLON BAR: Not online, I'm afraid, but again a question from me.

I want to go back to something that Gonzalo started the session with. This was talking about the different outcomes of the Data Transparency Lab and the different initiatives that exist to give people these different kinds of tools for managing their data and to get more transparency.

From what I have observed over that past years is that it seems that whenever there are such initiatives, they're wonderful, but it's very difficult for them to get adopted by these very much commonly used platforms, apps, et cetera.

I was wondering, are you making any specific effort to get to that, meaning making sure that these wonderful ideas rise from being concepts into actually being practically implemented by the platforms that are being used by millions of people and where people's data is indeed vulnerable in certain ways?

>> GONZALO LOPEZ-BARAJAS: That's probably what the yearly Congress is for. So basically trying to share what the discoveries are from these data tools, and inviting relevant, not just companies but also policymakers, and so on, and trying to get more people to the Data Transparency Lab. The Data Transparency Lab is an open initiative. So that anybody, any company, any institution willing to join could adhere in order to keep working on enhancing transparency, transparency and data use.

So you have on one side the grants that are provided for the research tools. And then the Congress which tries to use the outcomes for those tools in order to help the policymaking process, in order to contact other companies, in order to make them aware also with other user associations. So we are trying with this initiative to contact, to tap all the different stakeholder groups in order to make an impact.

>> MODERATOR: Thanks. It's very clear. So it's not only about Telefonica and telephone data, it's about how to use data best, in an open way.

>> GONZALO LOPEZ-BARAJAS: Well, in fact, as I said, it's not just Telefonica. And also ATT, which you can argue is also a telephone company, well, a traditional, but it's also we have the Mozilla Foundation and we also have MIT involved as our research partner. So I think it's a quite interesting initiative that might yield interesting results. So the more people that adhere to the initiative, the more impact that the initiative will have and the better the results will be.

>> MODERATOR: Well, thank you. I think these were nice closing words, right? Anything you want to add?

So thank you for this. And thank you for sharing the initiative on open data from the lab from Telefonica. We all appreciate it.

So please.



This text is being provided in a rough draft format. Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.